[x]

Acceptable Breaks from CanonOne of the characteristics of a Mary sue is that her presence in any given story disrupts how it plays out, so everything can accomodate her actions at the expense of conflict or suspense. Basically the events of the story always get solved to the benefit of the sue, be it by her hand or indirectly.
This is specially troublesome in fan-stories, where the rules of the game are already laid down unless the original author changes them somehow. When the rules are broken by a fan character, it is surely on its way to sueness, right?
Well, what when they're not?
What happens when the rules of canon are so vague, inconsistant, or plain badly laid that breaking them is acceptable, or actually an improvement?
People get pissed when a character breaks canon rules, with or without adequate explanation, and often this is reason to label them as sues.
But let's reflex about it for a moment.
Take for instance (If you're kind of aware at least) the Naruto fandom. I've been fan of that series for a f

Mary-Sue: Part 8Mary-Sues: Romeo and Gertrude?

"Names. What's in a name, really? I mean, besides a bunch of letters or sounds strung together to make a word. Does a rose by any other name really smell as sweet? Would the most famous love story in the world be as poignant if it was called Romeo and Gertrude? Why is what we call ourselves so important?" (Julie Kagawa).

I'll answer that question with another quote:

"I read in a book once that a rose by any other name would smell as sweet, but I've never been able to believe it. I don't believe a rose WOULD be as nice if it was called a thistle or a skunk cabbage" (L.M. Montgomery).

Names, despite

How do you create characters?When I have created tutorials, written stories and RPG characters, and given critique to stories/characters, many younger people have asked me how I create my characters. Where do I start, how much attention do I pay to non-Sueness? Is this and this character profile good? Should the kiddo fill this and this character sheet?
It's actually hard to me to tell people good tricks to create characters, as neither I know how I exactly do the characters. I just get and idea... and flesh it out... and I work on several parts simultaneously. What I often end up to do is to highlight the kids the importance of personality and giving a running gag for the character.
Still, I'd like to find words for character creation...
What about you, guys?

Mary-Sue: Part 9Mary-Sues: The Eye of the Tiger

In all of my previous guides, I had assumed that most, if not all characters, were human, or mostly human, instead of thinking of the possibility of main characters, or even minor characters, being animals. Well, it doesn't really matter, because, for the most part, the rules for creating human characters, including names and powers, writing presentation, and even romance would also apply to animals. There would just be a slight variation from humans, and this slight variation can make a world of difference in your writing.

A more common complaint I've seen about writers who write about

Ignorant writingNot sure if we've discussed this before buuuutt whatever
Are there any subjects that young writers often dive into..yet they clearly have no real knowledge on what they're trying to write about and it just drives you mad?
Examples: Male homosexual relationships, certain types of mental illnesses, etc
And of course there's always the classic "breaking canon writing and bending the rules that canon has established
So list some stuff you've seen and that personally bothers you and maybe give some insight on what exactly they got wrong about it

What sue trait do you hate the most?Holy fuck. A journal about mary sues!? WHAT'S GOING ON!? AM I FEELING OK?!
Anyway, if you had to pick one thing that's common among sues that just drive you the most insane, what would it be and why?

How to Be a Likeable Female Character1. Have a sense of humor.

2. Learn to do some things for yourself; don't just sit around and expect someone else to handle all the work.

3. Have a listening ear and a sympathetic heart.

4. Dream about true love, but at the same time know how to care for yourself.

5. If you do find love, love him for who he is, not for what you want him to be.

6. Never be controlling or manipulative.

7. Never let anyone push you around.

8. Cry when necessary, but don't get carried away.

9. Always stand by those whom you truly care about.

10. Don't be so serious that you forget to have fun, but don't have so much fun that you forget to be serious.

5 Tips for Mary Sue AvoidanceEDIT: If you like this journal entry, check out The Sarcastic Guide to Writing ebook http://www.amazon.com/The-Sarcastic-Guide-Writing-ebook/dp/B005TOCC1C for exclusive content on world-building, character, and dialogue!
1. If the world revolves around your character, they're probably a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is, contrary to popular belief, a state of being, not a state of appearance. A lot of people tend to try and "fix" a Mary Sue problem by having their character be ugly instead of pretty, jerkass instead of sweet, a fat, helpless blob instead of someone who can throw lightning bolts, and stupid instead of smart. (This is called an Anti-Sue, as opposed to a Purity Sue; many subspecies of Sue exist; just ask TvTropes.) But, somehow, everyone in the world manages to not comment on her ugliness, bad temper, obesity, or stupidity. In fact, they try real hard to buddy up to her, even plan their calendars

Wicked's Guide to Character CreationIn my time moderating RPG forums - which I have done since I was 14 - I've seen a lot of characters. Good and bad. I've also created very many character, either for RPG sites or for my own short stories.

So how do I do this?

First, pick a name. I generally use baby-names online if I need names in a specific language [Japanese for anime RPGs or various other languages if I can't think of anything] I come up with a story or setting, and then I think about how that would mold a character's life and thus their views, beliefs, and so on. I think, "Is the character pessimistic, or optimistic?" and I go from there.

Example: Susan grew up in a poo

Browse More Like This

more ▶

Featured in Groups:

#Anti-Mary-Sues-Club
Not flamers! we just dislike MS

Details

Submitted: July 6, 2012

Link

Thumb

Statistics

Comments: 48
Favourites: 13 [who?]
Views: 1,173 (5 today)

[x]

Mary Sue guide

by ~ZerotheHunteh, Jul 6, 2012, 3:14:09 PM
Journals / Fun / Gossip

(FIRST OFF:THIS IS IN GOSSIP BECAUSE THIS IS THE CLOSEST THING I CAN FIND FOR THIS!)

Okay, this is just a guide for people who are new to RP, it's about these characters called Mary-Sues, I just want to tell people what they are, who they are, and stuff like that....

I:WHAT IS A MARY SUE?

A Mary Sue is a character who is perfect in every way, in every positive character trait (Hot, Powerful, Smart, etc), they have no cons. And they usually are related to a canon character (Such as sibling, BFF, married, etc), they are usually known to have a tragic past that is boring and generic and sometimes just flat out gross (Family slaughtered as a toddler, rape victim, village destroyed, last person of a clan, this list goes on and on.), but this character is always so hunky-funky happy as always, they pretty much have a generic backstory as Sasuke (Except Sasuke's backstory was put out well and detailed), this character is always overpowered, and just not intresting to fight. Because they have the strengh of a god. And thus. We classify OCs like this as Mary Sues (Or Gary Stus if the OC is a guy.).

II:HOW DO YOU FIND A MARY SUE?
Simple. Look at a character who has at least five of these in their character:
Related to a canon character (Romantic. Sibling. Etc.).
Generic and overused past (Family killed. Clan killed. Etc.).
Shockingly big breasts.
Overpowered superpowers (Like the ability to blow someone up with his/her mind.).
Slutty clothing (Ones that show huge amounts of cleavage, ones that show off your OC's buttocks, etc.).
Power of a god (Pretend your OC blasted a very powerful fireball at a Mary Sue, the fireball would hit her but cause no damage to her.).
Three or more romantic crushes.
Looking VERY out of place (Pretend you made an OC wearing a girl scout oufit with green ankle long hair and purple eyes into Left 4 Dead, IT WOULD NOT FREAKING WORK!).
If the OC kills other characters for no reason (Pretend your character was just swimming in the ocean, then a ninja pirate OC comes out of the sky with a sword, cuts your OC's head off, feeds the body to a bunch of rabid dogs and hangs the head on his/her front door, not fair at all.).
If your OC has at least 5 of these traits, then consider fixing your OC. Like, now.

III:WHAT ARE NOTABLE TRAITS AND CRAP IN A MARY SUE?

Well, time to make a list and show examples.

We shall call the Mary Sue:Mary.(HUR DUR I R SO ORIGINAL!

).

1.Beauty

A Mary Sue's most notable trait is beauty, they attract every guy they meet, and all the girls jealous as hell. Which in a nutshell, makes the other girl OCs look like an ugly piece of poop, and because of this. Mary Sue OC owners will make fun of people who own girl OCs with an original personality, backstory, etc.

I.E:Mary is in the final two, she is fighting Neji, who is very skilled. The fight starts, Neji uses his Eight Trigrams Palm Rotation move, but Neji suddenly looks at Mary's face. Neji stops to get a nosebleed, then Mary uses her jutsu, which brutally hurts Neji, Mary wins the championship.

2.Speech

Mary Sues have a way with words, they can make ANYTHING back to normal with just the noise of her voice, they can easily stop a war that has been going on for over 9000 (I am not doing a joke here....or am I?) years with one shout and a truly moving speech, or make many friends with just a simple greet.

I.E:Mary runs into 2fort with her pistol, she notices her BFFs getting shot, burned, blown up, etc. She shouts VERY loud and it gets everyone's attention. She then gives a truly moving and sad speech which causes the war to stop. Then she has an orgy with both teams.

3.Relation to a canon character

Pretty easy to understand.

I.E:Hatake Mary is Kakashi's long lost aunt who joined the Akatsuki for no reason at all.
Mary is Bolin and Mako's long lost sister who got transported to (Insert snappy kingdom name here) after her birth.
Mary is Finn's future wife....you get the point.

4.Overpowered

Mary Sues can be overpowered, by that. It means that the deadly laser you fired at that other person just bounced off her and hit your OC's head, causing your OC's head to melt off and be turned into burnt goo. Yeah, it sucks.

I.E:Mary steals a car and drives as fast as she can. And when the police shoot at her, the bullets bounced off and hit your OC. Who was just walking home after winning 100,000 dollars and the neck and killed him/her.

5.Looks

Honestly, a Mary Sue can look like a complete slut, I just don't want to say more since this one is easy to understand.

I.E:Mary has giant breasts, wears a super revealing stripper oufit, and has super long purple hair...in a world of Pirates...

IV:ENDING

Well, not much to say, this is my first guide so it isn't perfect, so this is over....bye!

48 Comments

Mary Sue guideby #Anti-Mary-Sues-Club

Journals / Fun / Gossip

~~love 0 0~~

~~joy 0 0~~

~~wow 0 0~~

~~mad 0 0~~

sad 1 1

~~fear 0 0~~

~~neutral 0 0~~

~RoxieTheFoxie Apr 12, 2013 New member Student Artist

so would that make my sonic fan character a mary-sue?

[link]

*LetaDarnell Jul 10, 2012

Does this go for online rp's or D&d style stuff?

~NuttyNuti Jul 11, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

Otherwise yup, but as I told earlier, this is pretty much "drop an anvil" style tutorial. I mean, there is far more subtler sues. Also, Sueism depends on the context a lot: an overly busty character would be in danger of being a Sue in high school series, but in series that handles life of super models it wouldn't be that Sueish.

*LetaDarnell Jul 12, 2012

I'd argue that a lot of high schoolers have large breasts these days, but then again, they've got also got a lot of meat on them too.

I do agree with your point though.

Any way advice to deal with a Sue if they're in your rp party?

~NuttyNuti Jul 12, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

I assume you mean "what to do if there is a Sue in your RP group" (sorry, I'm not native in English). Well, I encountered situations like that a few years ago, and they were really hard... still they would be. Years ago, I hanged around in small forums what suffered from low member count, so the admins were forced to accept even most insane characters in order to avoid the board dying (...eventually, they died).

Back to the business. How to act when there is a Sue in the group? According to my experience (note I still regard the issue difficult!), it depends greatly on in what kind of position you are in the group. Are you a fellow player, or an admin whose duty is to say if the character is approved to the games or not? (...if there is any approval system.) Also, random "let's gather together and play in AIM with suddenly summoned characters" game is harder to organize than, say, a forum RPG with clear rules.

If you are an admin whose duty is to approve the characters, you have more rights, but still, you can't slam the player with your opinion. If your RP group has some kind of rules (like, "your character can have only max. two kinds of elemental spells", or, "your character can't be a master in martial arts unless he or she has undergone training of years"), you can refer to them in order to limit the character's insane powers. Also you are able to limit traits that are simply impossible to exist (like, neon-colored hair in a world where such colors don't exist).

However: if you use rules against Suethors, you are supposed to use them with other characters, too! Rules apply to everyone. Also, I wouldn't go to limit characters with perfect personalities: usually, it's work of simply an inexperienced player. RPG characters tend to shape more as they are played :3

If you are a fellow player, you have less options. At least, DON'T scream the person that his/her character is a Sue: roleplaying is, well, playing, and it can't be overly serious especially when there is amateurs present -- having fun is more important. If an amateur is instantly yelled at, he/she most likely just stops playing instead of learning and becoming more pleasant playing buddy. If you can't shut up, tell the issue him/her privately and RESPECTFULLY. Don't embarrass him/her front of other people. Have more feeling like "I think your character would be more interesting if he/she had an interesting weakness, like..." rather than "Sues are badbadbadbadbad".

The best situation would be like this: There is a clear RPG community with clear rules and admins who approve the characters according to the rules. Such a situation (luckily present in the forum where I hang around) would separate worst Sues. However, rule filter doesn't work well on how the character is actually played. For this, the player needs examples. Play YOUR character well, and show how fun you have with him/her by making him/her end up into troubles and embarrassing situations. This may help the amateurs get the point and follow the example :3 If there is clear misdoings (like the other person keeps reading other characters' thoughts), it's just healthy to point them out to help him/her to improve as a player.

My thoughts.

*LetaDarnell Jul 13, 2012

Thank you very much. Sorry about being confusing.

I have someone playing a Sue in my group (sleeping with a villain, saying 'he's misunderstood!', sex after knowing him for a day or less, and hogging the spotlight). I'm not sure what to do.

~NuttyNuti Jul 14, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

No problem, that happends when the listener is non-native

Hmmm, a question: is the villain in question a NPC or a played character?

*LetaDarnell Jul 15, 2012

NPC.

~NuttyNuti Jul 16, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

Hmmmm... again hard to say, so more specifying: Is the RPG a fan RPG set into an existing world? Or is it an original RPG? Also, was the villain someone that was created by someone else than the Sue player?

If the villain was created by someone else than the Sue player AND the villain has very accurate personality that prevents him just jumping into the bed with the Sue, at least that's something you can point out. Well, probably it doesn't touch the main problem, but still...

In general, how I would approach the problem... hmmm, I think I would try to specify what is accepted for EVERYONE in the RPG and what is not accepted. (Be careful about forbidding things that people have always done before the Sue player messed that area up.) If a RPG community has good and clear rules enough, they prevent a lot Sue-playing.

For me, this results this kind of thoughts...

A good-willing character is okay, even one that genuinely thinks that a villain is misunderstood (personally, I love naive characters xD). A character who THINKS that she is attractive enough to seduce a villain... yup, perfectly possible. An attractive character is okay... But I assume that Sueism comes in the fact that the player makes the VILLAIN to jump into the bed. (I assume so?)

There, I would point out the realism: If the villain really is a villain-villain, WHY would he(/she) sleep with a "good girl"? I'd say there would be only two more-or-less logical options: a rape or feelings towards the Sue. Reading between the lines, it's not the first option, and about the second one, I don't think the villain would reach that level of relationship that fast: even if there is people who could jump into the bed with a person they have known just for an evening, there is the VILLAIN thing between. Sex requires trust (if it's the type that is accepted by both parties), and if the other party comes from villainous side... well, you can't exactly be sure if someone (the Sue or her teammate) is going to kill/capture you as having fun. There is VERY long way from "I'm gonna kill her" to "let's make out" in the trust scale.

Fast journey to a bed, possible. Sexual relationship with a villain, possible (if developed carefully). Fast journey to a bed WITH a villain, INSANELY UNLIKELY. Seriously, there is far too much blocks between.

Even if the character is a NPC, I'd say that the NPC MUST be played according to his/her personality.

Stream of consciousness, yup, but did this help to sort thoughts?

(1 Reply)

~MalaysianOtaku Jul 10, 2012 Student Digital Artist

Oh, and if the Sues does have a weakness, it'll somehow be an 'advantage' for her personality or such.

"Mary often falls, even when there's absolutely nothing on the path. So her mega-super-ultra-lover is always there for her to make sure that not a single dirt touches her glittering face. Sometimes her jealous-friendzoned-friends are there too to save her"

Oh, and another type that I take as Sues are the types that's involved in lots of relationships, but isn't considered a slut.

"Mary is in a relationship with her childhood friend, Gary. They love each other very much. But Marty, her friend from middle school loves her too and Mary likes to go out with him, looking like two lovebirds. Then meet Larry, a nice classmate confessing his feelings to her. She accepted his feelings and immediately thinks that Larry is her soulmate" Upcoming chapters will show you about Mary's relationship with Harry, Terry, Jerry & many others. Absolutely no one in the story thinks she's cheating on Gary, instead they feel that Mary is just a sweet person, innocent in every way possible.

I sometimes take a Sue as a character that's overly cliche too. Doesn't have to the 'perfect' type. Just the type of thing that we see on shitty dramas often.

"Mary is the daughter of an extremely rich man. She has a boyfriend that comes from an average / poor family, so they thought they can't love each other. One day, she found out she was actually adopted. After that Mary found out she's actually her own boyfriend's long-lost sibling. Then her 'boyfriend' wants to get married to another girl and Mary cried the whole wedding session." The next 4 chapters portray nothing but Mary crying.

More from #Anti-Mary-Sues-Club in News

Featured in Groups:

Details

Statistics

Mary Sue guide

Mary Sue guideby #Anti-Mary-Sues-Club

The Journal Portal

Polls

What is your preferred drawing software?

deviantART [dee·vee·un'nt·ART]

Keep in Touch!

Deviousness

Add Media

Style